Lake Lanier and Buford Dam Water Release Answers

Why would the American people want to enlist the federal government to run the health care system in this country when apparently they are not able to even grasp the basic concept that when water is released into a river it contributes to its level. The primary purpose of this and most other Corps lakes is to provide flood control. Where is the common sense leadership in this situation? Why wasn't our commander in chief of the military ensuring that his military staff at the Corps office in Mobile was doing the right thing during an emergency situation? Obvious incompetence and lack of common sense. My tax dollars at work:

Concur completely. Unbelievable. I can't believe there is water still being released.

Corps says releases equaled 1 inch, 30 miles down stream. Wait a minute. 670 cfs is what flows the hooch thru ATL in the middle of a drought. Big Cover Your Bu t going on!

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/article/23957/

Last night the corp let out almost 500 MILLION gallons or 668 cubic feet per second from the Buford Dam. Here is the link to their data that shows the release records. http://tinymicros.com/lanier/

During the peak of the flooding they continue to release 600+ cubic feet per second according to these records, and for only 1 day they backed it down to just under 400. The corp did contribute to the flooding and they should be held accountable. Even one drop of water being let out while homes were being destroyed is negligent and illustrates their lack of responsibility inability to manage our resources.

389 million gallons per day just to power the dam? Who are you kidding here? Those inefficient generators and turbines will get you every time. Also you have to understand the dam was built for flood control. What does that mean? The flood level was not high enough so they opened the dam to make sure more places were flooded there by controlling the flood. Had they closed the dam completely then they would not be in control. This way they are not sitting by and doing nothing. West Point Lake is screaming, with the flood gates wide open and generating full blast so next week they can ask Lanier for more water. But I think I have it figured out now. When water runs into Lake Lanier it becomes "Federal” water. This “Federal” water is then released and allowed to mingle with other water down stream making this water become “Federalized” as well and now must be allocated properly. As for the flooding, samples were taken and this is how they are able to tell that their water had no effect what so ever on any flooding taking place down stream, but I guess what’s a third of a billion gallons or so when your house is already 20 feet under water. Say what you will about inefficiency, but nobody can do it better than our government. I’m sure glad someone who knows what is going on is in charge.

Ya'll will not beleive what I just read in the Times online edition.

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/article/23957/

This absolute moron "Jeremy" says:

In this case, the dead fish will cause plenty of problems for the humans. But that does require rational thought. I am not a tree hugger in any sense. You DO NOT completely stop the flow of the river, PERIOD. If the dam is damaged because of the lack of flow then you create a big problem. Most of the deaths were from stupidity.

What planet did this guy wiz in on?

This was sent to 1071 Coalition:

So now that the lake is at a "normal level" for the 1st time in 4 years, the Corps is going to increase withdrawals????

Is 550 cubic feet per second NOT enough for water quality? It always has been in the past. Why is there a need NOW to increase that amount for water quality?

Increases in Hydro power production? Why? Is there some big power demand somewhere? Are the lower lakes not producing enough power? My goodness, I would think the generators on the lower lakes have been red hot for 10 days now. Is Lake Lanier serving as a "profit center" for the Corps to sell power? I understand the :power contracts", but is this really necessary or is the Corps simply profiting by draining the Lake? To the detriment to all of us?

Are there construction contracts between the Corps and local governments,with which the Corps is obligated to keep the lake BELOW a certain level during a certain time frame? Gwinnett County? Lake Lanier Islands? Forsyth County? Hall County? The Cities of Cumming and Gainesville? Are there ANY contracts with the Corps requiring a maintained lake elevation? If the public was made aware of these contractual obligations, maybe, just maybe we'd understand why the lake levels must stay down. And guess what? If we all knew ahead of time that Lake Lanier would be held down artificially, for a specified period of time, for a specified reason, we could all plan our business interests with Lake Lanier accordingly!

Case in point: Duke Power on Lake Keowee sends out a yearly lake level outlook and drawdown schedule. Duke explains with its stakeholders, the needs for these drawdowns, the timeframe for these drawdowns, and a list of things the stakeholders can accomplish while the lake is down. Dock and seawall repairs, etc. Duke Power works WITH their stakeholders by being transparent, honest, and up front. Yes, I understand that Duke is a privately held corporation with shareholders etc., but the point is, they care about the folks that care the most for the lake. They work TOGETHER.

I know for a fact that NO ONE is happy to read your email regarding increased discharges. I think your group needs to demand a little (actually a lot) transparency from the Corps regarding these contracts and what EXACTLY is required by the Corps. If these contracts cause harm to the public and un necessary degradation to the lake levels, then something needs to be done about it. When are these contracts up for renewal? Why in the world would we release water simply to produce hydro power? Incredibly inefficient form of power production at the expense of this Lake level. Someone needs to get copies of these contracts and read them, understand them, find out when they are up for renewal, study the demands and requirements, and lastly, find out where these contract obligations need to be corrected.

Lake Lanier has NOT been full 8 out of the last 11 years. 8 out of the last 11 years below full pool. The lake has reached full pool only 3 out of the last 11 years. That's a 28% score. I don't know ANY business represented by your group that would be in business if they "got it right" 28% of the time. This is reflective of one main thing: Poor Management. Poor Management at a time when Georgia is facing unprecedented hurdles with this Lake. There is no excuse, drought or otherwise, for this lake to have a 28% record over 11 years. None.


Everyone would like answers to these questions. We are all tired of the "surprises" by the Corps. No one that I know of has a good feeling about the Corps. Why? Because of the surprises and seemingly super inefficient methods of management of this lake. Their methods simply do not make sense. We need honest answers, honest transparency, and honest management of the lake from the Corps. Maybe then we would understand the Corps methodology for the madness that we see. The public is NOT HAPPY; as a matter of fact, everyone I come in contact with, is understandably upset with the Corps' management of this Lake. Something has got to change. Your group is a group of business interests which in one way or another obviously profits by the existence of Lake Lanier. These businesses would probably see increases in profits with a better, more efficient management of this Lake.

Please demand some changes.

A true TEST of the Corps willingness to show interest in Lake Lanier will be if they allow the lake to have a surplus of 1 to 2 feet like they have proposed in the past to act as a buffer going into the summer months. To my knowledge, this is the first time the lake has been this close to full pool at the end of the summer. Sept and Oct are usually are most driest months.

The lake refills during the winter months. Now would be the time to take action to plan for the future by allowing a small surplus.

Hi Jim. Makes complete sense but the Corps has an itchy trigger finger to press that buttom which lets out water...check out the 5 week forecast on the Corps website below. It was just released 4 days ago. Lisa Coghlan of the Corps was all excited about the lakes potential to reach 1068.5 in one article this week but the 5 week forecast shows the Corps letting out most of the gains from this week. I'm sure they are just following their 50 year old Operating Manual and preparing for the winter and spring rains but the Manual never had common sense written in to it. Has anyone ever run a red light when you new the light was broken and skipping your turn or did you sit there waiting for the traffic light repair person to show up and give you a green light? The Corps is going to stick to their 50 year old manual and wait another 1-2 years for their new and improved operating manual. I wonder if the drones down in Mobile will add some common sense language into their Pulitzer document?

http://water.sam.usace.army.mil/acfframe.htm

"button"...cant find my reading glasses ;-)

Here's more. Great point by Henry Rowe in this article:

"I think the corps will say that the water was released only to provide power for internal operations. This is unacceptable. In flood conditions, they should pay for power off the grid to operate and not release any water to reduce the flood as much as possible."

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/article/23984/

Adding to flood conditions by discharges to operate the dam is incomprehensible! Also I read that "minimum" discharges have to be maintained for "the trout in the river". Trout will find their way without dam water. Who depends on catching these trout for their daily substinence? They need to find a job and go to Publix. What irritates me most is the absolute wall between the COE and the public regarding communications. But they are government aren't they? I think as a group we need to express our concerns to our 2 local so called advocates. Coalition 1071 and the Lake Lanier Association. Instead of having cocktail meetings at Legacy Lodge with a featured speaker, it needs to turn into something more aggressive. We've all seen the effect that constituents have had with the Town Hall meetings regarding health care, etc; this is the kind of local response that is needed here. Polite and organized but firm. The LLA seems to be very quiet as well and needs to pick up the action. All of you can email or write or call both of these groups, let's start now!

I live on the lake and have been amazed this week to see how little its level has risen. Yes, it's come up a little but we could be at full pool RIGHT NOW save for the seeming incompetence of the Corps. Professional management could have saved millions of dollars and given us a full lake for the first time in several years. But instead, we have a bunch of clowns (no offense to the real circus employee intended) managing this lake.

They would rather flood out I-285, cause millions of dollars in property and environmental damage (resulting from treatment plant overflows), and inflict injury and death on members of the public who were caught in the rising waters, rather than just cut off the water flow at Buford Dam for a day or so.

The Corps is exclusively culpable for the Chattachoochee reaching the flood stage it did this last week. Someone should not only be fired but held criminally liable.

Now we want the feds to run our health care???

To Dan. You're absolutely right! But the real problem is getting to the COE. You can't! It's government. We need to press Lake Lanier Association and Coalition 1071 to move on these issues. It will take action on all fronts. Contact these 2 orgs and express your feelings. If we just sit here and write comments, it's not going to help. It has to go to the right people! COE would be great, but unfortunately that's not going to happen.

The Corps has put out a "cover our azz" story in the Times. Go online and read the comments. Add your own comments. Coghlan is back peddling like nothing I've seen. She's real proud that the Corps held back water that could have flooded Atlanta. What a bunch of bunk! But they counldn't find the provision that allowed the Corps to turn off the water to maybe just maybe help save a life or two downstream. Jeeze! A 3 or 4 year old little boy drown when his home all of a sudden drifted down stream. Come on Coghlan!

A very good comment in the Tmes today:

The corps leaves the dam open because they want the citizens of Hall, Dawson, Forsyth and Gwinnett Counties to know whose lake it is! It belongs to the Corps of Engineers and not the citizens of the United States. When they wanted the lake full (i.e. Olympics '96) they closed the gates and the lake filled up. Then when citizens started bringing lawsuits against them over water levels and property boundaries, they opened the gates to drained the lake and teach the citizens who is really in charge. Broken guages, river environments, prioritization of lake resources are all code words for you are stupid and we know best. All over this country, wherever the Corps of Engineers has its finger in the pie, it is a mess. Witness New Orleans, Colorado River basin, Lake Lanier the list goes on. Civilian review boards should be appointed to bring the Corps in check and remind them They work for the citizens of this country and the assets they protect belong to the citizens of this country.

I saw ONE 30 sec segment on WSB 6:00 am news last Thursday where a reporter asked a Corp of Engr @ Buford Dam if they were still releasing water with all the flooding & he said "Yes, we have no provision not to" I wonder how the people that live along the Chattahooche that lost there homes & business feel about that. I live on Lake Lanier & believe me I know how these Corp people are they love that power & it's they're way or NO WAY!!

Read this online at Gainesville Times: Looks like Lake Lanier Association agrees that the Corps messed up again:

Jackie Joseph, president of Lake Lanier Association, said Monday she has fielded many calls on the matter.

"The feeling is if that water had not gone downstream, (there’s) a good chance ... that we probably would not have had as much damage as actually was there," she said.

"Technically, I’m not sure I understand all of that, but I do know that flood control means you are supposed to, in my view, prevent downstream flooding."

Ouch ... I know quotes like that can be taken out of context, but that sounds like some pretty straight talk in the first part and some pretty heavy sarcasm in the second part:

"I’m not sure I understand all of that, but ... "

Heavy Sarcasm? Really? I listened to Jackie Joseph's audio on The Times online. I heard a very informed and in-tuned President of the Lake Lanier Association telling it like it is. No spin!

Go Jackie! What sarcasm? This is what the COE is supposed to do. Prevent flooding. Go LLA.

Sarcasm as in ... I think she knows very well what she's talking about.

By saying "I’m not sure I understand all of that, but ... " it seems as if she was politely skewering the Corps' actions.

Either way, she certainly got the point across.

I just read where Lake Allatoona is 12 feet OVER FULL! In AJC today. OMG! Corps managed!

Someone I know over at Allatoona sent these photos to us, showing what the lake looks like with 13 feet of extra water:
http://www.lakeallatoona.com/2...l-pool.htm

You guys are amazing. The Corps is stuck in the middle of a BS State Initiated water war. Their hands are mostly tied with their releases right now through a judges order. An the dam was built for recreation, flood control and downstream agriculture. Read the legislation.

And the gentleman that started this with the 670 CFS. If the dam released 670 CFS the river would be a babbling brook. The average flow rate since the lake reached full pull has been nearly 7000 CFS. Last summer...before the flood, the flow rate was managed between 900 and 1500 CFS.

Also...during the flood. The dam did not generate. They can not completely close the dam.ie, there is always water flowing....670 CFS.

Morgan falls dam opened their flood gates which ultimately led to the downstream flooding. 90% of that flood water released from Morgan Falls was run-off from our tributaries along the Hooch why do you think there was minimal if not zero flooding above Roswell.

Quit blaming the feds, they are barely responsible. Blam your governers, mayors, state politicians and all the other clowns that have no clue how to manage water.

Hi Sean - thanks for the detailed rebuttal. I've mentioned a few times on this site that the Corps has become a whipping boy for the mistakes of politicians and developers.

I think the main reason is that while the Corps does its own task well, it just doesn't do a very good job of handling the media. The public see the "what" but see an explanation of the "why".